Leaf Peeping With The Best Of Them

It’s peak leaf peeping season, and I'm bringing this episode to you from The Leaf Watch Desk deep in the Woods of the James Cave Instagram Feed. This year’s official Leaf Watch Leaf, as voted by listeners, is the Northern Red Oak, and it’s putting on quite a show.

In this episode, I hike the Windham Path in the Great Northern Catskills with Francis X. Driscoll, a 12-year veteran “leaf spotter” for I LOVE NY’s Fall Foliage Report.

Together, we talk about how New York’s iconic fall color forecasts are made, what it takes to predict “peak,” and how one storm – or one weekend – can change everything.

Follow the journey of this year’s fall foliage and see real-time updates on The Jiffy’s Leaf Watch Cam as the season moves toward its final hues.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to Leaf Watch Desk
• 0:57 Meet the 2025 Leaf Watch Leaf
• 2:17 Peak Alerts and the State Map
• 4:14 Who Makes These Forecasts
• 4:42 Walking Windham Path with Fran
• 6:31 Getting Peak Right (or Wrong)
• 8:19 Territory, Timing, and Tourism
• 10:17 This Year’s Early, Drought-Driven Shift
• 11:39 Reading Elevation and Color Bands
• 13:07 Weather Risks: Frost, Wind, Rain
• 14:23 How Spotters File Reports
• 16:07 Spotter vs Peepers and Closing

Transcript

James Cave: 0:04

Hello and welcome to another episode of The Jiffy, a podcast about upstate New York that really takes you places like right now. In this episode, I'm coming to you from the Leaf Watch Desk in the woods of the James Cave It's Grim Feed. That's because we are deep into the thicket of leaf peeping season. It's a huge time of year, not just for all of us at the James Cave Instagram Feed Audio Newsletter Podcast, but for all of us in New York. Autumn is one of New York's most popular travel periods, thanks to one of the longest and most colorful foliage seasons in the United States, if I do say so myself. People come from all over the world to see these leaves change, and we have got a lot of them. They're on some maples, they're sumacs, aspens, birch trees, flowering dogwood, of course, cherry and oak, and I'm just naming a few of them. Every year around this time, we kick off our series called Leaf Watch, as soon as the leaves start changing, and we observe the changing of the leaves through the experience of a single leaf. It's our leaf watch leaf. Every year it's a different leaf. Our first year was 2023, and we had a sugar maple leaf. But that leaf disappeared prematurely. It was very sad. Year two, last year if you remember, it was the quaking aspen. And that one put on a really good show for us. It was very rewarding. This year though, the 2025 Leaf Watch Leaf, the people voted, and you selected the northern red oak. It's a beautiful leaf, 7 to 11 bristle-tipped lobes, each lobe sharply pointed. Here's how you can tell you're looking at a northern red oak. Well, it'll be a medium-sized to large tree that grows 60 to over 100 feet tall in some places. Now, if you can imagine the bark here, some tree guides consider the northern red oak as identifiable by its lighter-shaded vertical stripes, looking somewhat like ski slopes going down the trunk. But you gotta be careful out there. You gotta watch out because immature northern red oak can also be confused with scarlet oak. It's been known to happen. So just keep your eye out and look out for those stems, or what the experts would call the petiole of the northern red oak, and you might see some reddish hues there. Okay, maybe that's something to do with its name. Well that's our leaf watch leaf for 2025, and it's looking like uh oh, nope, we're getting a key leaf alert here, a key leaf alert at the leaf watch desk for fall foliage 2025. New York's Empire State Development Division of Tourism is calling it. They're calling it now their fall foliage report for week five is saying that we are at peak foliage. They're calling peak foliage expected in the Thousand Islands Seaway region of upstate New York. Uh, they're also anticipating for peak or near peak leaves in select pockets across the region this weekend. Okay, that feels important because uh I Love NY defines peak as, quote, the best overall appearance the foliage will have during the season, taking into account the color transition, brilliance, and leaf droppage. Um, I just want to give some background quickly because it was only on September 3rd when Governor Kathy Hokel officially announced the start of fall foliage travel season throughout New York State this year, a little bit earlier than it was last year, if I recall, and she said, quote, there's simply nothing like autumn in New York. I have to agree with her on that one. It it marked the beginning of I Love NY Fall Foliage Weekly reports as well as the beginning of Leaf Watch season here on the feed. But um, those fall foliage reports, I'm sure you've seen them. It's the map of New York State that's got those color gradients all across the regions of New York. Some some are showing no change in the leaves, going to just changing, and all the way through near peak, at peak, and then past peak. Sometimes you'll see greens, yellows, reds, all the way to browns on this map. And the map right now for week five is showing some yellows, a lot of reds in the Adirondacks and the Catskill peaks, even some brown here. So uh it's happening, and they release this every Wednesday throughout the season, so you can make your weekend leaf peeping plans. They've been doing it for more than 40 years now, they tell me. But my question is, how are those forecasts collected? Like, how do they know what each of the states roughly 18.6 million acres of forested land looks like at any given time? Well, it turns out that it comes down to a network of professional volunteer leaf peepers. I'm sorry, uh, that's not right. The state tells me they're actually called leaf spotters, not peepers, and there's at least 90 of them. So for this episode, I wanted to head out into the Catskills to take a reading of the leaves with somebody from that network, a 12-year veteran of the program. His name is Francis X. Driscoll.

Francis X. Driscoll: 4:59

We can sit and talk. We can walk and talk?

James Cave: 5:04

Yeah, let's walk and talk.

Francis X. Driscoll: 5:05

Walk and talk.

James Cave: 5:05

It's my first time at Windham Path. I've always wanted to be here. I met Fran at the Windham Path out in the Great Northern Catskills.

Francis X. Driscoll: 5:11

I used to come here before it was the Wyndham Path when it was a farm. And I'd take pictures here of hay bales and in in the fall, especially.

James Cave: 5:20

It's out there by places with such tree adjacent names as Maplecrest, Ashland, and Oak Hill.

Francis X. Driscoll: 5:27

And I I I guess I'm one of the originals here. Yeah, well, they they they had seen my work and and and they they they came down to a show I had and they uh they lied to me and said it was a very glamorous job, you know, one of those bait and switch things, you know. So I I I said I couldn't say no, they were paying me well for my pictures at the time. So I said, yeah, I'll I'll do it. And that was 12 years ago I I started uh reporting. And it was a natural for me because I was always driving around and and hiking around trying to find peak foliage. I would be constantly watching the progression because if you didn't go for one day, you might, you might, or maybe one or two days you don't show up to see how the progression is, you might miss it. So I I kept, you know, I call it checking in on things and tucking them in again and and then coming back the next day and uh see how they're doing. One of the worst things that ever happened to me was, well, not one of the worst things, but uh a very disappointing weekend was when I used to come up here uh before I moved here, I used to come up on weekends in the fall with my wife to look at fall foliage. And we could only get here on the weekend. We worked in the city. So we we got here. I remember one time I got here and it was peak was in the middle of the week. And we got here on the weekend, and the leaves were a lot of the trees were bare. They've lost their leaves really quick. So I remember that to this day, that it was very disappointing. And I think about that sometimes when I'm I usually when I'm doing my report, that uh, you know, I try to get it right, you know, and but sometimes you don't get it right.

James Cave: 7:28

So you think about the people who might be relying on these maps in your reporting, is that right?

Francis X. Driscoll: 7:32

Yeah, yeah. I'm the one that always gets it wrong. You know, I'm consistent though. So they probably look at my report and go, we'll report the opposite. No, it's uh most of the time I've done it right, you know. They haven't fired me yet, but but they haven't paid me either, so they don't pay me. They don't pay me by the hour, you know. But I'm out there taking my pictures anyway. So this is like a win-win for me.

James Cave: 7:55

What region, what region do you typically um focus on? Like what's your what's your territory?

Francis X. Driscoll: 8:01

Well, my territory is in Green County, Catskills, basically mostly in Catskill Park, and from the elevation of 1,500 feet to about 4,000 feet high peaks. So, and I travel around. They're always asking for a report to be filed on Monday of the week and to give an estimate as to what, or a guesstimate as to what it's gonna be the coming weekend, which is I think I thought was totally insane because like I said, if in a couple of days, things can change dramatically, even like overnight. So many times I'll be calling them back on a Wednesday or some sometimes on a Friday, frantically saying, change that report. It's it's gotten, especially when it goes to peak. With photography, my goal always was to photograph quite a few locations, as many as possible, at full peak. One of the worst things for me as a photographer is to take a picture of a tree without leaves on it. You know, that is not conducive to my pictures. And I sell my pictures up here, so you know, it's nice to see people come up to see the fall foliage. And actually the tourism is good for my business. So it's like a self-serving thing that I do. I try not to lie about it and say every weekend is peak. But, you know, every weekend can't be peak, you know, and uh, but maybe that's what what what makes it special, you know. I don't know. Hopefully I I'll get it right this year. But it's it's pretty rough right now.

James Cave: 9:41

Yeah, can you tell me? Let's look at this year and what's happening so far. Like what have you been seeing and what's striking you uh out as being sort of notable this year.

Francis X. Driscoll: 9:50

Well, I think the drought has there there's sex well, it it was earlier than than I remember. It's just like overnight. I I don't think I've ever remember it changing overnight that quick and that early. But then I said, well, there is the drought, and every year there are some trees that are stressed out or they may have some disease and they change early. But this year it was probably more for the for the drought.

James Cave: 10:19

About how many different is this uh one of your main places to look at to sort of take the temperature on what the trees are up to?

Francis X. Driscoll: 10:26

Yeah, I usually well I I I I live right up the road here, so this is where I start out every morning. You can see right now we're at about 15, maybe 1200 feet, 1,500 feet. And you can see the trees on the left at our level, just starting to change over here next to the path. But in the hill, looking across here, you can see uh that's starting to change up there, and you can see it's starting that it goes from orange and and some reds, mostly orange right now. And coming down in elevation, you see actually this it looks like there's some purple in there right now, but it gets to now it it cut as you come down in elevation, you can see it back to green, back to just starting to change. We have a cross-section of everything right now. Some of the trees are starting to actually lose some of their leaves a little bit already, but nothing drastic. You know, I think after the first big frost that might start happening. Or a windy, rainy day.

James Cave: 11:31

Yeah, you mentioned earlier maybe one of the worst things to happen is uh is like a windstorm, right?

Francis X. Driscoll: 11:35

Yeah, yeah, I I remember growing up in the Bronx and first time seeing uh seeing uh leaves change and I remember taking them and gluing them to paper in in in in school, you know, and and uh but uh now I'd like to glue them back on the trees, but I can't do that.

James Cave: 11:58

What would be if today was your data report, what would you file? What would be your report for today? Looking based on what we just saw in Windows Mountain.

Francis X. Driscoll: 12:05

I mean for the coming week or for as what it is, what stage it is at right now?

James Cave: 12:10

Oh well, that's a good question. So if you're making the report for people to make their plans for the following weekend.

Francis X. Driscoll: 12:16

This coming weekend.

James Cave: 12:17

Yeah, how do you think about that? Because you're what you're seeing now, I guess you're kind of like predicting in in a way. You're doing a forecast, right?

Francis X. Driscoll: 12:24

Well, I pray real hard and then that I'm gonna get it right. No, I I um I look at the weather report and see if it's gonna be really cold and um if it's gonna have rain or wind, stuff like that. That's gonna affect whatever's here. You know, cold nights and sunny days help the leaves to change.

James Cave: 12:52

So in the iHeartNY uh fall foliage forecast map, they have these tiers, right? It starts at like no change, then there's slight change. What are and then there's peak, go and then a past peak. What are those stages?

Francis X. Driscoll: 13:05

Let me see if I can get the app up. Okay, oh, there you go. See, here's the app. It says, you know, 2025 fall foliage reporting form. Um, and so the first question is which week are you reporting from? You know, so uh the you know it was two two days ago. Yeah, my name, um, what county are you reporting from? And then it goes to all these counties. And what region are you reporting? Uh where are Catskills? And uh what is your reporting station? I usually say the high peaks of the Catskills, uh, or Great Mo Northern Catskills, mountaintop. What percentage of leaves do you estimate to be changed by the coming weekend? That's this is done on a Monday. So like I said, that's a crapshoot sometimes. You know, you can do a guesstimate. It's a sliding scale tool you just yeah, and when it gets near peak, Friday I'm you sometimes calling and saying it's it's peak, and I'm frantic. But sometimes he's able to get it into the station, sometimes he says, uh too late. I can't, you know, may not be able to get it in there. I'll try. But get get it into the TV stations. So it says, what is the overall brilliance of the leaves? And the options are, the suggestions are dull, average, bright, very brilliant. So the last is the best that uh I I always hope for. But I am truthful about this because I don't mind if other photographers get up here and get good pictures. I'd like to tell them all stay at home, but I can't do that.

James Cave: 14:42

Do you uh identify as a leaf peeper or a leaf spotter?

Francis X. Driscoll: 14:46

Leaf spotter. It changed. It at at at one point years ago they said leaf peeper. But uh you know, I like leaf spotter better. But uh I don't like spots on the leaves.

James Cave: 14:59

Yes, but yeah, but what's wrong with peeping?

Francis X. Driscoll: 15:02

I don't know. It's more like a peeping tom, you know. I don't know. I'm from New York City, so you know peeping.

James Cave: 15:07

It's a little creepy factor.

Francis X. Driscoll: 15:09

Yeah, I I I'm not uh yeah, I'm I'm not peeping. I I I'm I'm basically absorbing, you know, trying to uh absorb the whole place, you know. It it's been entertaining doing it for the last 12 years. It's not boring because it it is constantly changing. Sometimes it's frustrating, but I'll have a month of taking pictures. You could see you can see that the change from where we are to to going from green up to uh it might be getting close to peak next week, uh up at that high peak over there, but hopefully it'll hold.

James Cave: 15:47

And there's always next year, right?

Francis X. Driscoll: 15:49

Yes, there's yes, that's that's that's the save hole.

James Cave: 15:56

Well, that's gonna do it for us out here at the Leaf Watch Desk in the Woods of the James Cave Instagram Feed. To stay up to date on the latest as the season progresses through the experience of our single leaf watch leaf, the Northern Red Oak. I'll keep you posted with our Leaf Watch cam until that leaf uh is completely past peak. If you like this episode, maybe share it with a friend. Let them know what's happening out here in the woods this time of year. It's all very exciting, and it really helps to spread the word as I try to grow this podcast. I really appreciate it. And also, thanks for listening all the way to the end of this episode. Okay, until next time, I'll see you over on the Instagram feed.